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SCOTTB

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Posts: 6
Reply with quote  #1 

 

 

 

Hello

 

         My name is Scott Blinder I have an Uncle who had a brother in WWII. Unfortunately he did not return home. I have been feeling compelled to research this mans history. My dad may have something to do with this. I have always been vary interested in WWII aircraft. As a kid my dad brought me and my little brother to air shows. I built models of the planes over the summer. Later in life my brother and I brought my dad to the air shows and I still build 1/48 scale WWII aircraft. My dad has know passed away. I have wonderful photos of us at the air shows. Any way the man I am researching is Gerald L. Cohen ID 0-707861 he was in the 463rd, 772 bomb squadron. On a B-17G, I believe #46547. I believe he was a navigator but I am not sure. I have gathered some info from Joel Swindlehurst, I ordered the CD, what a nice web site. No info on Gerald Cohen at this time. I also contacted Dick Drain. What a nice man. He believes both planes were manufactured by Douglas Aircraft and were in natural metal finish. I understand #46547 collided with #46684 on the 16th of Feb 1945 while on a bombing run to Bolzano Italy. Bombing the Marshalling yards. I believe the pilot of #46547 was Frederick w Jones. Both planes went down with no survivors. I am looking for as much info as possible for #466547, #46684 Records how many missions logged, dates of missions?  Any photos of the planes or crew? Where did the planes go down? In the Adriatic Sea or on land? Where they’re any other crews that may have reported the accident? Where they on their may or coming home from the mission? Where the planes flown overseas to Italy by the same crews? Did the Plane have a personal name painted on the nose? Natural metal or painted? Any particular markings on either of these planes. If any one remembers Gerald Cohen please fill me in on the details.  I am planning to build (2) B17Gs in 1/48th scale to remember both crews. I hope to have them ready for the 463rd reunion in Denver. Any info will be much appreciated. 

 

 

                                    Sincerely

                                           Scott Blinder

                                           4776 s. Salida St.

                                           Aurora Co.  80015

                                          (303) 693-9411  Home.

                                           sblinder@autoimageco.com

 

 

JLMoore

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Reply with quote  #2 

Scott,

I'm sure you've written off for personnel records.  Have you checked on http://www.armyairforces.com?  It's a great site for research help.  You've gotten in touch with a great helper, Joel.  He's wonderful.  Sorry I have no information for you; my father did not fly on that mission.  Good luck in your search. 


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Janet L. Moore
daughter of William J. Little
463rd BG 772nd BS
jj463rd

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Reply with quote  #3 

Hi Scott I believe my father piloted ship 46547 on October 23,1944 but it wasn't a combat mission it was only for instrument calibration for a flight time of just 2 and a half hours.

The book 772nd Bomb Squadron The Men-The Memories says

MIA Bolzano and that on Feb 16th 1945 there was a collision with ship number 46684 which ditched in the Adriatic Sea.

The names listed are Frederic Jones,Favor,Chohen(probably a misspelling of Cohen),Gunn,Rhudy,Bongers,Tulchinsky,Woy,Olivero,Williams(KIA).MACR #12098

 

And like Janet said go here.

http://www.armyairforces.com/dbmacr.asp

 

You should be able to send for detailed records considering that you now have a Missing Air Crew Report Number(12098).

 

If you want you can order the book 772nd squadron The Men-The Memories from

Turner Publishing Company

412 Broadway,P.O.Box 3101

Paducah,Ky 42002-3101

 

Phone # 502-443--0121

 

Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 96-61566

ISBN:1-56311-320-1

 

On page 459 Dave Turner thanks Dan Carroll for research and compiling this book.

The book also has other references to other books on page 461.

Dad gave this book to me and my other brothers and sister on July 4th 1997.

 

 


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Son of 1st Lt. James L. Jarmon Pilot 15th A.F. 463rd B.G. 772nd B.S.
jj463rd

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Reply with quote  #4 

Here is another book on the 772nd.

My mom gave it to me after my father passed away.

It has a lot of great stories and has excellent pictures.

 

It's called Crew Umbriago by Daniel P. Carroll copyright 1986.

I don't know where you could find a copy though.

Norman Lear the famous movie & television producer was a member of that crew.The book says that he was the radio operator.Daniel P.Carroll was the tail gunner.

I just edited Wikipedia's site about Norman Lear.I also put his service in the 463rd on that site and added a hyperlink to the 463rd's website.


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Son of 1st Lt. James L. Jarmon Pilot 15th A.F. 463rd B.G. 772nd B.S.
SCOTTB

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLMoore

Scott,

I'm sure you've written off for personnel records.  Have you checked on http://www.armyairforces.com?  It's a great site for research help.  You've gotten in touch with a great helper, Joel.  He's wonderful.  Sorry I have no information for you; my father did not fly on that mission.  Good luck in your search. 

Thank you so much for responding. I have seen the sight but I can not seem to come up with much accept the aircraft # and the date it crashed. I have not written off for personal records yet. I'm hoping Joel can help fill in some info. If you find any info please let me know. Thanks again Scott.

 

David

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Posts: 8
Reply with quote  #6 

Scott,

On ArmyAirfoces.com, I found the two aircraft you mentioned 46547 is probably 44-6547 that belonged to 463BG, 772Sqdn MACR #12098. The other aircraft 46684 is probably 44-6684 that also belonged to 463BG,772Sqdn MACR #12102

You can contact:http://afhra.maxwell.af.mil/index.asp

It's the Air Force Historical Research Agency

 

Accident Reports - sometimes difficult to locate, maintained by the Air Force Historical Research Agency (AFHRA) on microfilm. An accident report can run from just a few pages to a half dozen or more pages and may even include photos of the accident.

 

Unit Histories, War Diaries, Daily Reports, Station Memorandum, Special Orders, Public Relations Reports, Loading Lists, etc. - these unit documents are archived by the Air Force Historical Research Agency (AFHRA) at Maxwell AFB, Alabama.
They will take request via e-mail, at the bottom of the page click on inquires.

I requested Accident Reports and Unit History and the otherinformation noted above.

David Calkin

 


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David Calkin
patcoker

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Reply with quote  #7 
Scott: 
 
I will try to send you a picture of my father, Edward Gunn, in a B-17.   He was a member of the crew with  Lt. Gerald L. Cohen, Navigator.  There are also some very interesting accounts of their sorties in his handwritten "Journal", one mentioning the navigator.  I believe from this picture that the  plane with the nose painting of a cartoon character,
"Baboon McGoon" was the B-17 they flew for most of their missions, except for the last two where his journal mentioned they flew a "new job from the states, #684".
 
Pat Coker, daughter of Lt. Edward F. Gunn

Attached Images
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Patricia Ann Coker

EKHeffley

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Posts: 3
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTTB

Hi Scott.  My name is Eric.  My uncle Howard R Woy was the Ball Turret Gunner on the same plane.  Gerald Cohen was in fact the Navigator on AAF Serial Number44-6547 known as the Dixie Queen.  They were on a mission to Bolzano Italy as you said.  The Missing Air Crew Report says that the Weather and Visibility was poor.  Pilot statements on the Missing Air Crew report say that they encountered thick clouds and were climbing to get over them.  Went they arrived in the clear, 44-6547 and 44-6684 were not seen or heard from.  They went down in the Adriatic Sea.


I have a list of the entire crew, and other info from the report.  I just don't know what you have learned since you first posted, so let me know what else you might still need.  I to really want some pictures of the plane and crew.

 

 

Hello

 

         My name is Scott Blinder I have an Uncle who had a brother in WWII. Unfortunately he did not return home. I have been feeling compelled to research this mans history. My dad may have something to do with this. I have always been vary interested in WWII aircraft. As a kid my dad brought me and my little brother to air shows. I built models of the planes over the summer. Later in life my brother and I brought my dad to the air shows and I still build 1/48 scale WWII aircraft. My dad has know passed away. I have wonderful photos of us at the air shows. Any way the man I am researching is Gerald L. Cohen ID 0-707861 he was in the 463rd, 772 bomb squadron. On a B-17G, I believe #46547. I believe he was a navigator but I am not sure. I have gathered some info from Joel Swindlehurst, I ordered the CD, what a nice web site. No info on Gerald Cohen at this time. I also contacted Dick Drain. What a nice man. He believes both planes were manufactured by Douglas Aircraft and were in natural metal finish. I understand #46547 collided with #46684 on the 16th of Feb 1945 while on a bombing run to Bolzano Italy. Bombing the Marshalling yards. I believe the pilot of #46547 was Frederick w Jones. Both planes went down with no survivors. I am looking for as much info as possible for #466547, #46684 Records how many missions logged, dates of missions?  Any photos of the planes or crew? Where did the planes go down? In the Adriatic Sea or on land? Where they’re any other crews that may have reported the accident? Where they on their may or coming home from the mission? Where the planes flown overseas to Italy by the same crews? Did the Plane have a personal name painted on the nose? Natural metal or painted? Any particular markings on either of these planes. If any one remembers Gerald Cohen please fill me in on the details.  I am planning to build (2) B17Gs in 1/48th scale to remember both crews. I hope to have them ready for the 463rd reunion in Denver. Any info will be much appreciated. 

 

 

                                    Sincerely

                                           Scott Blinder

                                           4776 s. Salida St.

                                           Aurora Co.  80015

                                          (303) 693-9411  Home.

                                           sblinder@autoimageco.com

 

 

Swindy

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Posts: 254
Reply with quote  #9 

Guys,

I have a photo of the "Dixie Queen" but I don't know if the men standing beside it are part of the crew to which you refer.  The only person in the photo that is identified for me is the person 2nd from left.  That is T/Sgt Lon Wampler, radio operator, who provided the photo.  The rest of the caption is "Returning from an aborted mission."  The photo is attached here. 

 

That's about the extent of what I know about it.

 

The only other thing I can offer either of you beyond the information you already have, Eric, is I can provide you with all the mission information for the men for each mission they flew.  This would include date, target, a/c flown (+ nickname, if any), formation position (if provided) and crew composition by position.

 

If you're interested, let me know via private message and I'll get it out to you as soon as I can get it put together.

Attached Images
Click image for larger version - Name: Aborted_mission_1-a.JPG, Views: 133, Size: 69.33 KB 

__________________
Joel
463rd BG Historian
Proud son of 1/Lt Leroy J. Swindlehurst (1921-1950)
Navigator, 772nd Squadron
Joel@463rd.org

RJones

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Posts: 5
Reply with quote  #10 
My name is Robert Jones.  My father is the nephew of Fredrick Jones, pilot of 44-6547.   Fred's sister compiled a book of Fred's letters home and other memorabilia.

In a letter Fred wrote home the day before the accident, he wrote the following:  "I have a couple more bombs painted uner my name, and that doesn't hurt my feelings any.  That makes 16 sorties and 30 missions.  I am almost half finished now.  I would be over half done if I was on a mission basis.  Only 19 more to go.   That is quite a number, but a lot less than 35."

There are a few pictures in this book which is spiral-bound copy paper.   The pictures are Xerox copies of old b/w pictures.   I am happy to scan and email them to whoever would like them.  

The picture above of the crew is great.   My guess is that the man on the far right is Fred Jones.  The nose looks like it could be his .  

Hope this helps.   

RJones
MarkDay

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Posts: 6
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jj463rd

Hi Scott I believe my father piloted ship 46547 on October 23,1944 but it wasn't a combat mission it was only for instrument calibration for a flight time of just 2 and a half hours.

The book 772nd Bomb Squadron The Men-The Memories says

MIA Bolzano and that on Feb 16th 1945 there was a collision with ship number 46684 which ditched in the Adriatic Sea.

The names listed are Frederic Jones,Favor,Chohen(probably a misspelling of Cohen),Gunn,Rhudy,Bongers,Tulchinsky,Woy,Olivero,Williams(KIA).MACR #12098

 

And like Janet said go here.

http://www.armyairforces.com/dbmacr.asp

 

You should be able to send for detailed records considering that you now have a Missing Air Crew Report Number(12098).

 

If you want you can order the book 772nd squadron The Men-The Memories from

Turner Publishing Company

412 Broadway,P.O.Box 3101

Paducah,Ky 42002-3101

 

Phone # 502-443--0121

 

Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 96-61566

ISBN:1-56311-320-1

 

On page 459 Dave Turner thanks Dan Carroll for research and compiling this book.

The book also has other references to other books on page 461.

Dad gave this book to me and my other brothers and sister on July 4th 1997.

 

 


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Mark Day
MarkDay

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Posts: 6
Reply with quote  #12 
I have been told the records destroyed in a fire at Kansas city, I was told by a Brigadier General when visiting the Wright Patterson Air Force Museum a couple of years ago, that there was a second set of records. Can anyone confirm that ?

Mark Day
My father was T/SGT Truman Day Engineer and top gunner.

Mark Day
mday96@gmail.com

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Mark Day
Swindy

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Posts: 254
Reply with quote  #13 
Mark, 
I have no knowledge of there being a second set of personnel records for any of the men who served in any capacity during WW II.  To my knowledge, the Nat'l Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, MO was/is the only source for individual personnel records.  I'm not saying that one doesn't exist, just that I'm not aware of it.

You state that you have records for T/Sgt Truman Day, correct?  Do they state when he flew his first mission?  According to my records, the date of his first mission would have been 23 Oct. 44 but I could be in error.

T/Sgt Day flew many missions at Top Turret Gunner/Engineer with my father, 1st Lt Leroy Swindlehurst, Navigator.  In fact, they were shot down on the same plane, A/C # 44-8498, known as the "Wheel Wagon", a radar bombing equipped B-17.  They were flying Deputy Wing Lead on the mission to bomb the Daimler-Benz tank factory in Berlin, Germany when they were hit by anti-aircraft fire near the city of Brux, CZ and were forced to leave the formation, trying to make it to the Russian front to the east.  They were successful in reaching the Russian lines (barely) before being forced to bail out of the damaged plane.  They were all taken into custody by the Russian Army and eventually returned to Celone AAB near Foggia, Italy just as the war in Europe ended.

I can send you a listing of all the missions I have record of for T/Sgt Day which would include mission date, target city, specific target, A/C flown and name (if any), formation position and crew names by position on the aircraft.  If you would wish this information, I think I can put it together fairly quickly as he flew many of his later missions with my father.

I do not think that Norman Lear ever flew with T/Sgt Day although Mr. Lear was a member of the 772nd Sq. as a radio operator.  He may have but I have not thoroughly researched that as yet.  I do know he was not a regular member of the crew because once the crew became a lead crew, T/Sgt Wesley Dugan, Jr. was the radio operator almost exclusively.

If I read correctly, you would be interested in a set of the Pictorial History CDs which can be purchased for $5 each through me.  All you would have to do is provide me with your mailing address and I would send them out to you quickly.  My address is: PO Box 502, Hines, OR 97738.



__________________
Joel
463rd BG Historian
Proud son of 1/Lt Leroy J. Swindlehurst (1921-1950)
Navigator, 772nd Squadron
Joel@463rd.org
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